Are you at a residency right now?
Yes, I’m at a residency with the choreographer Steven Michel at STUK in Leuven (BE).
What is the project about?
It’s quite at the beginning, it’s a dance piece, mostly about apophenia, ghosts, time and perception; a kind of investigation on the invisible. How to embody the non-visible through bodies and sound. We are still in research, the premiere will be next march in Gent.
And you do the sound or you do both also the performance part?
I’m participating as a dancer, performer this time.
You have a background in performance, body movement as well as circus. How do you differentiate between the both – sometimes you work on a project as a musician, other times as a performer?
Mainly I do performance. Yes, I’ve worked for other artists (Philippe Quesne, Phia Ménard, Ruth Childs, Marcela Santander Corvalàn …) and developed my own work as a performer.
Music came later. I usually never do music for others but I did it for the first time last April in Seattle; I was invited by the artist Lavinia Vago for her FKK performance at the old electric factory. It has opened the possibility to do it more often and it was a really good experience surrounded by amazing artists.
So yes, somehow body work and music have always been separated in my practice but now I feel the time to work on a new performance and put together music and dance, movement.
Is there a reason that you don’t make music for other people or you just want to keep it as your own creative endeavour?
There’s no reason really; only circumstance I guess. I needed and still need time to develop each practice (body and sound).
How did you get into performance?
After high school, I attended circus schools (ENACR, CNAC) for six years to study acrobatics, specialising in Chinese pole and handstands. We also had contemporary dance classes. I also went to the National Conservatory of Dramatic Art in Paris. So I was already looking for something in between – between circus dance and theater. The body has always been the starting point.
And what about circus?
Well, in high school, I wanted to become an actor. I saw a contemporary circus and how they used their body shocked me; it opened a door inside me.
Circus is such an old school thing as well, in quite a romantic way. The idea of a travelling performance troupe, living on the road and visiting different places.
Yes, of course, this classic idea of circus happily still exists, but somehow I’ve never been so much attracted to this folklore of circus. We used to live in caravans at school and learn techniques but circus schools, especially in France, wanted to develop a new vision since the 80’s. Most performers, musicians and artists are doing that: travelling and living on the road, but without a tent, haha.
How did you get then into making your own music? Was it because you were inspired by when you were performing by the music that you wanted to get into that as well? Or where did it come from?
For several years, I worked with a small collective of four people and when it stopped, I felt I needed to return to myself. So in a very self-taught way, my first music project ever came out, a one-man-band with a drum kit, two drumsticks in the right hand, playing synth with the left one and a mic in a headphone, “why make things simple haha” The energy was really influenced by krautrock music such as Can, or other bands such as Deerhoof, Lightning Bolt or Melt Banana. It was the starting point to approach the sound or music through a physical experience, done with an acrobatic mindset, “ what looks impossible, make it possible”.
And what is it about physicality that attracts you?
There are some artists that really push boundaries and make you think about your condition and your life somehow. Body physicality is interesting to me, not only the technical aspect but also how the physicality produces the sensational in the primary sense, what creates the sensational in bodies, whether we are transmitters or receivers. It’s a way to reconnect with our own body.
When you perform, do you aim to create spaces for some sort of togetherness?
Somehow it’s always collaborations, but with different impulses. When I work for other artists, I’m more at their service, moved by their visions. For my own work I usually work alone, both in terms of the music and the live act. But I’m open to collaborations of course. Working for others and developing my own work is very complementary. Those back and forths are really important to me, it nourishes both.
Even production/economy wise it influences the process I guess; working on a piece can take two years in the head, nine weeks in a studio, more or less. In the performance field (the one I know) there is more structure, money and time I would say, and the music field is more raw, but it creates an emergency, a drive that I like.
I guess for a lot of musicians it’s quite hard to survive with music only these days, and they are trying to get into the performance or theatre scene, which at least until now, has been better funded.
Yeah, definitely. But I’m in a privileged situation. I earn my living with performances and there is a status in France for artists that helps during inactive periods under some conditions. (But who knows until when?).
You went from performance to music. What advice would you give to people who would actually want to get from music to performance and theater?
Honestly, I don’t know. Do what you feel and what you need to. Maybe to have a really good interest in the body… for better communication and to understand each other.
I remember the composer of a film by Akira Kurosawa (Fumyo Hayasaka, I think), talking about how image and music complete each other. The same could be said about body and music in performances.
In terms of body, self-care is also an important aspect, not just physical but also mental. How do you care for yourself in this respect?
By going to a lot of parties haha! It really depends; I’m not really the master of self-care. It depends on periods: sometimes I really need to stretch myself and do yoga or breathing exercises, drink tea every day; and sometimes I go to an after party and stay awake for like 30 hours. It’s an experience of endurance, of pushing my limits. I find my balance in extremes, somehow.
And in terms of music, what are you working on right now?
I’m still touring my live act, the same one I’ve toured for years, but it’s in permanent mutation, we are evolving side by side in a way 🙂 I’m looking for residencies to develop a performance between dance and sound, probably more narrative, with slower tempo, and more organic textures. I did a first draft at Lafayette Anticipation in Paris last December, for now the title is
‘Shoulder Blades or Shields of the Heart’. And I’m improving my production techniques on the computer…
Do you have anybody you learn from or you are inspired by in terms of your practice?
Yes many, learning by listening or observing. I really like long walks in the mountains, it’s really conducive to thinking. When it comes to performances, Jan Bas Ader really influenced me. But in general, movie directors like Apichatpong Weerasethakul, Hou Hsiao Hsien, Wang Bing, Kelly Reichardt, or the French photographer Marie Quéau.
Of course, I also really like a lot of musicians (not an exhaustive list): Hiro Kone, Tot Onyx, Radon, Luka Aron, bela, Lord Spikeheart, Meuko! Meuko!, Dis Fig, Fitness, Mirrored Fatality,
Fiesta En el Vacio, JS Donny, Danse Musique Rhône Alpes and many more.
When you play your own music, how important is the performative, presentation part to you?
Very important. My body is extended by those simple objects, like snares and cymbals.
To me, it has to be a physical connection between the body and the machines.
I try to inject punk energy into performing (not in a musical form). I like the rawness and direct energy of performing, to have a kind of urgency, full of rage and deep joy to be together with the audience.
Does the reaction of people have an impact on your performance?
Yes, totally. I know my set but I play very differently according to the audience’s energy.
Sometimes I really feel that I’m stuck in the machines and that I cannot extend the body as I thought I would, and sometimes I really feel people around me and that there is something happening.
It’s hard to predict how people react.
Definitely, we just have to do what we wanna do. Prepare a good surprise for people we love.
What are you planning for next year?
I will have dates with two dance pieces, continuing to look for gigs, preparing the performance I mentioned before but I’m a bit slow to be honest.
I think it’s good to be slow. Everything is so fast these days. It’s good to slow down a bit.
You are right. But I’m very slow all the time, so sometimes it’s good to speed up a bit.
How are you affected by what’s going on in the world? Are you able to focus on your art and work, as perhaps a way to take away the attention from all the negativity that surrounds us?
Of course I’m affected by what’s happening around us, what’s happening in Palestine, Lebanon, Georgia, South Korea and many other countries, also here in France etc.
Sometimes it’s really overwhelming. But we don’t have the choice but to continue and stay active, to do what is in our power and to not close our eyes. We can do fundraising events, donations, and help in many ways even if somehow it’s never enough.
It’s also tricky – what power do artists and cultural workers really have to make a change, when most of what’s happening in the world is dictated by politicians and corporations.
I guess there are many different layers, politicians and corporations are something and politics is something else. Our bodies are channels, whatever we do, we receive and have to transform and give back. How we embody politics, through art, discussions, or whatever we do, how we share time and space; perhaps what’s important is to stay together, to go to protests and to not stay alone in our brains – to create hope in hope, at least.
Interview by Lucia Udvardyova
Photo Chloe Magdeleine